drizzler dimensions and discharge

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pellets4fuel
Beiträge: 3
Registriert: 04.01.2016 17:05

drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von pellets4fuel »

Hi,
I am new to the forum and don't see a category for new members to introduce themselves. I am not new to woodgas. I have been toying with it for several years. I have a 1989 Toyota truck with an Imbert style gasifier that I have driven some, but not enough to work out all the bugs. I have followed Luc for quite some time on other forums. Recently he commented on a post on another forum about using the drizzler for a continuous flow charcoal retort which I think is a great idea. He also tried to describe to me the discharge on a drizzler. I have read through posts and have heard it called a screw, a snail, and a vice. Luc used the term flights which in English means and auger.
I think it is an auger that is being used that is being machined out of solid shaft, but am trying to find a picture on this forum to confirm that for myself.
Also then I am considering building a drizzler to use as a charcoal producing retort. It only makes sense to me though that if I am going to build something I should be open minded enough to build it to run something also besides just using it as a retort. Where to I find dimensioning per engine size and what current internal components look like in the drizzler? Drop box, cyclone, and final filter seem pretty straight forward, and wouldn't even be needed initially if I were only using it for a charcoal producing retort.
FYI I am considering building it large enough to try on my truck which is 2.2litre Toyota motor. If I build that big and decide to use it for something smaller how easy can I scale it down?
Thanks group, and Luc for inviting me to the forum.
David S
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Pascal Kirchner
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Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von Pascal Kirchner »

Hi David
I am new to the forum and don't see a category for new members to introduce themselves. I am not new to woodgas. I have been toying with it for several years. I have a 1989 Toyota truck with an Imbert style gasifier that I have driven some, but not enough to work out all the bugs. I have followed Luc for quite some time on other forums. Recently he commented on a post on another forum about using the drizzler for a continuous flow charcoal retort which I think is a great idea. He also tried to describe to me the discharge on a drizzler. I have read through posts and have heard it called a screw, a snail, and a vice. Luc used the term flights which in English means and auger.
There is a forum category called "Users corner" http://forum.thedrizzler.com/viewforum.php?f=74

i moved your post directly to this category :thumbup:

regards Pascal
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Pascal Kirchner
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Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von Pascal Kirchner »

Hi David
it is not so easy to determine a sizing for a gasifier.
Even running a car with variable RPM´s is more difficult than an engine in CHP mode with constant RPM.
You must find the most working RPM using in your car when driving with it.
The fuel must be included in the calculation. If pellets are used? If so, which pellets? 6mm, 8mm or larger?
Why did you want to produce charcoal with the "DriZzleR" ? You can also use the woodgas directly without producing charcoal for an charcoal gasifier. :thumbup:

regards Pascal
pellets4fuel
Beiträge: 3
Registriert: 04.01.2016 17:05

Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von pellets4fuel »

Thanks Pascal for moving my post to the right place.
I know that all things must be considered in sizing a gasifier. I had to do that when I built my imbert using the traditional charts that are out there. I have driven quite a few miles on wood now with success. My gasifier does not perform as well as I would like, but I think it has more to do with a HP to weight ratio than wrong sizing. I could be wrong though.
I know your or Luc posted some dimensions in a forum that gave some sizing that worked well for the VW size your running.
If I built a drizzler for charcoal production the charcoal wouldn't be to run a charcoal gasifier. Like you say that would not make much sense. Charcoal though in quantity has much value for soil, water filtering etc, (as you know) I have worked with a couple of different groups that want pelletized carbon for different things. My wife and I sell pelleting equipment and have done tests pelleting carbon.
I just am trying to think two fold that if I would go through the work to build one it may as well be able to be used as either or if need would arise.
David
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Pascal Kirchner
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Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von Pascal Kirchner »

Hi David
It is difficult to say what dimensions for your application are correct. A 2,2l engine no one has tested so far. Also not in portable truck mode. A 2.2-liter engine with an average speed of Let's say 3500 rpm ?! Runs pellets 6/8mm. I would choose an 200mm diameter tube. Beware, you can install it that you can easily enlarge this pipe or change it to a smaller pipe.

regards Pascal
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luk
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Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von luk »

Hi David,

Nice to see you here. Welcome!!

I just have a sort of buzy time right now and I do not want to give a too short answer, so pretty soon I have more time free I answer your questions.
Just a little patience.

Luk
imhardatwork
Beiträge: 3
Registriert: 21.09.2014 03:50

Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von imhardatwork »

Hi everyone
I have also popped over from the charcoal site to show that there is a lot of interest in what Luk and Pascal are doing with there Grate less machine after hearing that it would be a good at a continuous charcoal maker and so I shall wait and try and learn as much as possible .
I will also at some stage like to build and run a wood burning Gasifier and am very keen to see how Luk and Pascal continue with the development of there latest incarnation of this latest running machine .

Dave
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luk
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Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von luk »

Hi David and other intrested in an automatic charcoal making machine.

First of all David you ask about the dimensions of the grateless DriZzleR. If you have seen the video where we turned a several hours test with the grateless conected to a Volkswagen golf2 car you must have noticed that we broke off the test at about 4 hours running. This because the gasifier began to run cooler and cooler. Measering the temperature at a given spot in your gasifier is a good method to proof if your gasifier is proper demensioned: In this case it was not. Temp should stay stable or rise and fall more or less in a same range.
I know 4 hours contnious running a car would for most be called a succes but in this case and for us it was not. This all is written to warn you that the measurements I give you from this machine are not making up to the standards we have set ourselves.

Nevertheless I give you the measurements. The fall tube or DriZzleR tube was 150mm wide. The reduction, nail,dirt transporting tube was 120mm wide. The vice, screw, this is one piece machined narrow flights turned from solid steel in a lathe auger was 115mm wide. The flights beeing adapted for pellets where very narrow to each other, in this case while for pellets it was not important to transport dirt so here they where 10mm from each other therefor I refer more to a screw or the screw in a vice than to an auger wich looks completely other. The vice is now in a machineshop to adapt to another part for another test.

Since this grateless is very new and we did less than 50 hours with this concept very little is to say about the right dimensions. I am afraid it will need long an methicoulous emperic tests to be able to back-up the emperic with a foultless theory. Somewher however one has to start and we started with narrow and deep flights with a slow turning speed in order to keep as much charcoal in the reduction and not run the risk of incomplete reducing the smoke to gas. Also we tried to minimise the pull of the engine us sucking away the charcoal leaving us with an empty reduction or one with ratholes and thus letting to slip tar trough.

Our future tests will be completely in the other end of the spectrum. That is our method of testing. We start by playing absolutely sure and next by complete recklessly with all kinds of augers and with the sure knowledge of getting bad results. The best results will than somwher between this borders.

That was for the DriZzler as a gasifier. Now something about what intrests you the most. First some drawings who say more than a thousend words.
grateless V2 met charcoalgasifier 9-06-2015.jpg
grateless V2 met charcoalgasifier 2- 9-06-2015.jpg
slimakV2 3 30.05 d.jpg

The images date from june 2015. Then already I observed the possibility of the gratelkess DriZzleR to make charcoal. In this setup as seen in the drawings I even played with the idea to make a hybride gasifier that is a combined woodgas and charcoalgasifier in one machine. The gas produced by the gasification of wood goes his own way and the produced charcoal is transported back into a container something simple fire as made by Garywhere the produced charcoal is secondly ignited and wich gas then join the woodgas stream. That it is one of the many ideas and concepts I have in portfolio that one day I want to build and test to see its possibility,s and its limits. But the drawings could even now perfectly serve for building a continious charcoal making machine.. A charcoalmaking machine is far more less complicated than a gasifier.
Think away the dropbox, cyclone, pyrotouch and gaspipes and you have your automatic charcoalmaker. Make the push auger quickly intercahngable whit different flight distances and you can make charcoal in the sizes grain, half inch, inch and bigger and bigger acording to the flight distance of your auger. Put a magnet in the dirtpit and you retain the nails. Stones will fall down because of their weight. Make the return tube double mantle the first mantle beeing a sieve and you seive out automaticaly all ashes while the charcoal returns in a second auger driven by the same motor. Mind you that the push auger must turn right end the return auger left. Turn the charcoal collect bin into an exstra auger station with a flexible coreless auger and transport the charcoal in a bin or in bags. Make several of such augers starting from this charcoal bin station with several auger flight distances and you can automatic sort the charcoal size to size.

If you put in a charcoal level sensor (an idea from our good member holzigas) then you can take off a warning signal if one of the binns is almost full. Here are some images of this charcoal level sensor.
HOLZKOHLEKONTAKT2.jpg
HOLZKOHLEKONTAKT1.jpg
One little thing but important to me is that you are fair in recognising and give credits to the DriZzleR inventors Pascal Kirchner and myself and mention us and the name DriZzleR in further discussions you might have on other fora about this concept herebove. And if you will build an automatic charcoal maker or hybride gasifier or a bread that came off this origional idea for commercial purposes or for sales then forsee a 5 procent inventors fee. For the charcoal level sensor give credits to Holzigas.

Hope you have now some enough inspiration to start building.

Luk
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imhardatwork
Beiträge: 3
Registriert: 21.09.2014 03:50

Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von imhardatwork »

Thanks for the drawings Luk , it now makes it easier in my simple head to understand how your machine works and how if wanted it could be turned into a continues charcoal maker as well as providing the fuel for stationary engines making power or pumping hot/cold water .
Dave
Jumper
Beiträge: 72
Registriert: 21.08.2014 23:28

Re: drizzler dimensions and discharge

Beitrag von Jumper »

One little thing but important to me is that you are fair in recognising and give credits to the DriZzleR inventors Pascal Kirchner and myself and mention us and the name DriZzleR in further discussions you might have on other fora about this concept herebove. And if you will build an automatic charcoal maker or hybride gasifier or a bread that came off this origional idea for commercial purposes or for sales then forsee a 5 procent inventors fee. For the charcoal level sensor give credits to Holzigas.
Was genau läuft schief bei dir / euch?
Wir schreiben hier alle unsere Erfahrungen zusammen, so dass jeder was davon hat und jeder das beste daraus machen kann und du (ihr? ich weiß es nicht) kommst auf die Idee hier Geld für "eure Erfindung" zu verlangen :?:
Sag mal saugst du irgendwo Falschluft oder was?
Es mag ja sein, dass ihr die ersten wart die einen FEMA so umgebaut haben, dass er viel besser läuft und dann den Namen Drizzler vergeben habt, das will ich euch auch nicht absprechen aber jetzt damit zu kommen, dass ihr für die Erfindung bezahlt werden wollt? Willst du mich verarschen? Ich werd hier angemotzt weil ich keine Details von einem gefährlichem Prototypen Posten will und dann sowas :shock:
Auch deine geniale Konstruktion mit "gratelkess DriZzleR" ! Dessen jetziges Vorbild Peter und ich schon lange gebaut haben -_- Aber hey, tu dir keinen Zwang an, bau es nach, bau es besser ! Ich freu mich drüber aber fang hier nicht an, an der Idee eines Holzvergasers Geld verdienen zu wollen. Du kannst gerne den fertigen Vergaser oder irgend welche Teile verkaufen, da sag ich ja nix aber nicht im Forum gesammeltes geistiges Eigentum! :Tee:

Mit freundlichen Grüßen euer treues Mitglied, das schön langsam anfängt an der Idee DIESES Forums zu zweifeln :!:
Jumper
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