Hi Folks,
On the Yahoo woodgas forum and the DOW forum was not long ago a hot discusion about the DriZzleR, FEMA, Incremental feed and auger feed. Eve Wayne Keith himself mixed in. I was confused a lot that after I had been written in lenth that Incremental feed was nothing the like DriZzleR feed (Drip feed) and explained painfully the diferance, lots of people did not grasped it and kept mixing the one method through the other. Key words such as DriZzling is feeding the gasifier at the edge of starving him, A DriZzleR converting the litliest amount of wood inmediatly into charcoal and is therfor closer related to a charcoal gasifier than to a wood gasifier, none of this, for me obvieous and simple to understand theory, got through and let to false operation and bad even tarry results that we ourselfe selden encounter. So I decided not to come back until I could develop a sound proof that incremental feed and DriZzleR feed have nothing in commen.
Maybe I led myself to that confusion by using an auger. After now several month using this sort of feeder device and compare my results with those of the time I manualy feeded, I now know an auger feeder is just not precise enough for starving feed or drip feed. The auger even turned very slow just dumps increments of fuel with the results uneven gassing. Sometimes little sometimes too much. Then the fuel burns instead as in the Drizzler beeing gassed inmediatly. An Auger The best indeed can be used for incremental feeding a heater or burner. Incremental feeding my dear freinds still leads to tar producing gas making it risky for using in an engine. That is the reason you find appart from the theoretical study of a student WK used a to proof his statement, you seldom to none see such gasifiers driving engines.
Here is the proof video. I have no spectrometer so I had to find another method to measure tar. Being visual oriented I wanted to make tar visuable. The effect we all know, the tar glitches we encounter sometimes helpt me so after a long time I found a way to reprocuce an strengthen “the tar glitches effect” and make tar visual in a flare.
Luk
Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
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luk
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Koen
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Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Luk,
Reading your comments, here and on DOW, leads me to the following conclusion:
You'r english seems to be so perfect, that people easily misunderstand your words/intent/the meaning of what you want to say...
See this as a compliment please, but be aware that people might misunderstand you, or you are using other words for expressing yourself, in a way they not know...
and then they have no clue what so ever what you really talk about or they honestly think you are talking about something else...
Most people tend to look with their own mindset/knowledge base... they have no idea that things can be looked at from other perspectives...
Don't blame the public if they don't understand you / your intents. Most of all , make sure that you understand what they are trying to tell you, their intent might me wonderfull and supporting, positive, your translation inside your mind however can easily turn that into a negative...
Negative feelings causing discontent and anger... to be avoided... your best teacher never did angry with you when you did not understand his words or what he did try to teach you... why should you do different ? Use the words they understand.. learn the words, then teach your knowledge... with the words they understand...
It is less attractive for a visitor of you'r work to be confronted with complaints about how others did not understand what you where trying to explain them.
Your work and results are important, not your emotions.
Semantics... we can discuss about "incremental" or we can try to invent a new word "DriZzleR feed" but that would lead us to observe ourselves as childlike grown ups...
With incremental feed, they did mean, portion wise feeding, a bigger or smaller increment if needed, but following the needs of the gasifier.
Their intent was ok, your intent was ok... so call it a day and work on your "feeding" problem instead.
To the DriZzleR: i love what you'r doing and how you'r doing it, respect.
For your feeding problem? my remark: forget about trying to do a perfect balance in a high resolution feeding. accept that your feedstock is the limiting factor.
Find a "trigger" in your system what can tell the automation that its to much or that its to little feed. Then program the auger to giver bigger increments or smaller. The program will adjust itself automatically and follow your gasifiers need. ( trigger might be the vacuum pulled in your glowing charcoal bed + temperature ? but you know your system best )
Again, look to above as getting a compliment for your work and the utmost friendly suggestion for solving the language barrier. Don't let emotions trouble your vision and the way people appreciate your work.
Reading your comments, here and on DOW, leads me to the following conclusion:
You'r english seems to be so perfect, that people easily misunderstand your words/intent/the meaning of what you want to say...
See this as a compliment please, but be aware that people might misunderstand you, or you are using other words for expressing yourself, in a way they not know...
and then they have no clue what so ever what you really talk about or they honestly think you are talking about something else...
Most people tend to look with their own mindset/knowledge base... they have no idea that things can be looked at from other perspectives...
Don't blame the public if they don't understand you / your intents. Most of all , make sure that you understand what they are trying to tell you, their intent might me wonderfull and supporting, positive, your translation inside your mind however can easily turn that into a negative...
Negative feelings causing discontent and anger... to be avoided... your best teacher never did angry with you when you did not understand his words or what he did try to teach you... why should you do different ? Use the words they understand.. learn the words, then teach your knowledge... with the words they understand...
It is less attractive for a visitor of you'r work to be confronted with complaints about how others did not understand what you where trying to explain them.
Your work and results are important, not your emotions.
Semantics... we can discuss about "incremental" or we can try to invent a new word "DriZzleR feed" but that would lead us to observe ourselves as childlike grown ups...
With incremental feed, they did mean, portion wise feeding, a bigger or smaller increment if needed, but following the needs of the gasifier.
Their intent was ok, your intent was ok... so call it a day and work on your "feeding" problem instead.
To the DriZzleR: i love what you'r doing and how you'r doing it, respect.
For your feeding problem? my remark: forget about trying to do a perfect balance in a high resolution feeding. accept that your feedstock is the limiting factor.
Find a "trigger" in your system what can tell the automation that its to much or that its to little feed. Then program the auger to giver bigger increments or smaller. The program will adjust itself automatically and follow your gasifiers need. ( trigger might be the vacuum pulled in your glowing charcoal bed + temperature ? but you know your system best )
Again, look to above as getting a compliment for your work and the utmost friendly suggestion for solving the language barrier. Don't let emotions trouble your vision and the way people appreciate your work.
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luk
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Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Koen,
My english is not as good as yours. We could communicate in our mutual Flemish language but the topic is also of intrests of this forum, so here I go.
First of all. I can live with all your comments on general human behaevior. I can only but agree that language barriers and misintrepretations can lead to unwanted and unexpected reactions. However my comments on Dow, the Yahoo woodgas group, here and in my youtube video description, where triggered by a very specific incident rather than a generalisation.
The trigger was a very specific saying of a gentlemen of the DOW group that could in no way be misintrepreted nor misunderstood. The gentleman Y.T.wrote that he tried the "DriZzleR" twice and he said very blunt and without the slightest nuance; "the design is no good". The "DriZzleR" he said produces a lot of smoke, works only with pellets, takes forever to come to produce a sustainable flare, is a tar producer and very unsafe in the event of a brutal stop.
I am personaly not on the DOW list, but i did not wanted to leave this untrue statements unanswered. I did not wanted to get in an undendles "yes-no-yes-no" discusion either, so I made a video to realy show how untrue the statemenst where.
(this video is very shacky because made in an emotional rush)
If the gentleman had said I tried to build a DriZzleR but could not get it to flare....etc...etc then I would have totaly differnent reacted; with an offer to help.
Then I wanted to post the video on DOW. I tried to register. After waiting for some day's for the promished confirmation that not came, I asked a Woodgas member to post for me my defence text. The reactions where fierce and at low level. After seeing this reactions, I decided to take away the video thinking DOW would also take away the untrue and unfair initial post of Y.T. They did not so I put the video back but censored all names and refferencees to the DOW forum)
Finaly I was banned from DOW just at that moment WAyne K moved in with an old doctorate paper of a student that feeded a FEMA incrementaly. Since the ban on DOW I could only answer on Yahoo and did this as follows:
It is pitty, that after the shouting,”I am a bullshitter, an asshole and a troll” has stopped, and Wayne is starting to post intresting facts and argumenst, theDOW feel, they must aply censuration by banning a different voice from the discussion.
Wayne,
you are off track with your latest examples of auger feed FEMA’s. Just consider how the examples you gave would preform under this test. Rev up the engine’s generator under full load to maximum for say a few hours. Then all of sudden go to idle for also a longer period. Let not interfere the operator with the gasifiecation process. just let it continue.
The suction on the gasifir will drop dramaticaly The oxidation in the auger filled hopper, beeing adapted to the previous full load operation will rise. The gasifier will run too cool and the next morning, after your engine is cooled down, you will find it gummed up totaly.
It is not for nothing the FEMA people showed on the front of their brochure only a hard working tractor, plowing, and it is not for nothing they recomended; one would run it some time on gasoline, before shutting it off.
Also it is not for nothing, that none of the historical auger feed FEMA examples you mention, have survived untill today. The auger filled FEMA simply did not worked in real world situations, other than in university laboratory’s
Maybe Koen you missed the whole discussion on DOW, but in all the answers it was clear thet all the posters that talked about incremental feeding where reffering to an auger feeded FEMA. This is to say the gasifier feeded to a maximum fuel bed and not to a minimal starving fuel bed.
Since I invented the DriZzleR feeding method and the DriZzleR, some of the most active american builders that all have started with a FEMA, report me they have done the DriZzleR method before and have seen the nice effect on gas quality. Many hundred people more must also have seen the rare phenomen of an open top starving gasifier. Most are fair enouch to say that they have never done anything productive with their observations and therefor grant me the credit for this invention. Only a very few find a perverse pleasure to keep nagging me.
Seeing the phenomen, Making the right observations and coming to some workable conclusions and theory's was in the beginning not at least regarded as something worth notice by the woodgas community. It was not until Pascal Kirchner rebuilded his Imbert to a DriZzleR and ran succesfully his complete Cogen system for several hours that the DriZzleR gained respect.
With it, unfortunatly came also the envy.
Nobody realised that Pascal and I had a lot of hard work behind us to make the theory into a system. The works still continue and since we made our system open source we show everything after testing.
When then people that had neverbefore came up with any practical sugestion after studying our hard work and the solutions that we just publish, are claiming unprovable of course they did the same but long before.... well Koen, forgive me, but then, indeed I get emotional over so much unfairness.
Luk
My english is not as good as yours. We could communicate in our mutual Flemish language but the topic is also of intrests of this forum, so here I go.
First of all. I can live with all your comments on general human behaevior. I can only but agree that language barriers and misintrepretations can lead to unwanted and unexpected reactions. However my comments on Dow, the Yahoo woodgas group, here and in my youtube video description, where triggered by a very specific incident rather than a generalisation.
The trigger was a very specific saying of a gentlemen of the DOW group that could in no way be misintrepreted nor misunderstood. The gentleman Y.T.wrote that he tried the "DriZzleR" twice and he said very blunt and without the slightest nuance; "the design is no good". The "DriZzleR" he said produces a lot of smoke, works only with pellets, takes forever to come to produce a sustainable flare, is a tar producer and very unsafe in the event of a brutal stop.
I am personaly not on the DOW list, but i did not wanted to leave this untrue statements unanswered. I did not wanted to get in an undendles "yes-no-yes-no" discusion either, so I made a video to realy show how untrue the statemenst where.
(this video is very shacky because made in an emotional rush)
If the gentleman had said I tried to build a DriZzleR but could not get it to flare....etc...etc then I would have totaly differnent reacted; with an offer to help.
Then I wanted to post the video on DOW. I tried to register. After waiting for some day's for the promished confirmation that not came, I asked a Woodgas member to post for me my defence text. The reactions where fierce and at low level. After seeing this reactions, I decided to take away the video thinking DOW would also take away the untrue and unfair initial post of Y.T. They did not so I put the video back but censored all names and refferencees to the DOW forum)
Finaly I was banned from DOW just at that moment WAyne K moved in with an old doctorate paper of a student that feeded a FEMA incrementaly. Since the ban on DOW I could only answer on Yahoo and did this as follows:
It is pitty, that after the shouting,”I am a bullshitter, an asshole and a troll” has stopped, and Wayne is starting to post intresting facts and argumenst, theDOW feel, they must aply censuration by banning a different voice from the discussion.
Wayne,
you are off track with your latest examples of auger feed FEMA’s. Just consider how the examples you gave would preform under this test. Rev up the engine’s generator under full load to maximum for say a few hours. Then all of sudden go to idle for also a longer period. Let not interfere the operator with the gasifiecation process. just let it continue.
The suction on the gasifir will drop dramaticaly The oxidation in the auger filled hopper, beeing adapted to the previous full load operation will rise. The gasifier will run too cool and the next morning, after your engine is cooled down, you will find it gummed up totaly.
It is not for nothing the FEMA people showed on the front of their brochure only a hard working tractor, plowing, and it is not for nothing they recomended; one would run it some time on gasoline, before shutting it off.
Also it is not for nothing, that none of the historical auger feed FEMA examples you mention, have survived untill today. The auger filled FEMA simply did not worked in real world situations, other than in university laboratory’s
Maybe Koen you missed the whole discussion on DOW, but in all the answers it was clear thet all the posters that talked about incremental feeding where reffering to an auger feeded FEMA. This is to say the gasifier feeded to a maximum fuel bed and not to a minimal starving fuel bed.
Since I invented the DriZzleR feeding method and the DriZzleR, some of the most active american builders that all have started with a FEMA, report me they have done the DriZzleR method before and have seen the nice effect on gas quality. Many hundred people more must also have seen the rare phenomen of an open top starving gasifier. Most are fair enouch to say that they have never done anything productive with their observations and therefor grant me the credit for this invention. Only a very few find a perverse pleasure to keep nagging me.
Seeing the phenomen, Making the right observations and coming to some workable conclusions and theory's was in the beginning not at least regarded as something worth notice by the woodgas community. It was not until Pascal Kirchner rebuilded his Imbert to a DriZzleR and ran succesfully his complete Cogen system for several hours that the DriZzleR gained respect.
With it, unfortunatly came also the envy.
Nobody realised that Pascal and I had a lot of hard work behind us to make the theory into a system. The works still continue and since we made our system open source we show everything after testing.
When then people that had neverbefore came up with any practical sugestion after studying our hard work and the solutions that we just publish, are claiming unprovable of course they did the same but long before.... well Koen, forgive me, but then, indeed I get emotional over so much unfairness.
Luk
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Pascal Kirchner
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Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Hi Koen good to have you here 
I like what you are doing in the Philippines
I have similar linguistic barriers. English is not my native language. However, I don´t think there is really a problem with the facts. The problem is rather own attitude and the own personal education also with the things your parents told you. Each country has its individual character. Just as everyone has a different individual character to express themselves, or respond to others.
I personally believe only what I can see, taste or touch. Europeans i think also learned a lot through their own history. Not to believe anything without facting it for yourself. When someone sets up allegations which he can not prove he is a Babbler in my eyes. If someone can not prove it or wants to prove and behaves childishly he play in his sandbox and do not tell others about it.
The DriZzleR concept is a new type of gasification cause it´s never described, to run an engine with such a gasifier.
The word "DriZzleR Feed" was chosen to describe it to anyone who want to try running his gasifier as a DriZzleR.
On DOW I have only access via a proxy server, probably because my IP address range has been locked. Only so much to DOW.
Maybe some people feel stepped on their toes. Because we thought open source living without spending any money for books or even to spend money for forum memberships.
I'm glad to have a man like Luk in the team. With his lateral thinking and no fear of criticism, Art spirit and non-technical thinking.
There should be more Luk's in this world. Technical knowledge and its applications can be learned at any university. Lateral thinking and a different approach only from personal conviction.
Please don´t understand me wrong, please ask if you have a problem with some of my interpretations.
I also love criticism. Only speaking nicely will not help anyone to learn anything. Here in Germany we call it superficial. Maybe good for conversations but nothing for invention and finding new way of using technologies.
regards Pascal
I like what you are doing in the Philippines
I have similar linguistic barriers. English is not my native language. However, I don´t think there is really a problem with the facts. The problem is rather own attitude and the own personal education also with the things your parents told you. Each country has its individual character. Just as everyone has a different individual character to express themselves, or respond to others.
I personally believe only what I can see, taste or touch. Europeans i think also learned a lot through their own history. Not to believe anything without facting it for yourself. When someone sets up allegations which he can not prove he is a Babbler in my eyes. If someone can not prove it or wants to prove and behaves childishly he play in his sandbox and do not tell others about it.
The DriZzleR concept is a new type of gasification cause it´s never described, to run an engine with such a gasifier.
The word "DriZzleR Feed" was chosen to describe it to anyone who want to try running his gasifier as a DriZzleR.
On DOW I have only access via a proxy server, probably because my IP address range has been locked. Only so much to DOW.
Maybe some people feel stepped on their toes. Because we thought open source living without spending any money for books or even to spend money for forum memberships.
I'm glad to have a man like Luk in the team. With his lateral thinking and no fear of criticism, Art spirit and non-technical thinking.
There should be more Luk's in this world. Technical knowledge and its applications can be learned at any university. Lateral thinking and a different approach only from personal conviction.
Please don´t understand me wrong, please ask if you have a problem with some of my interpretations.
I also love criticism. Only speaking nicely will not help anyone to learn anything. Here in Germany we call it superficial. Maybe good for conversations but nothing for invention and finding new way of using technologies.
regards Pascal
The following question was asked in a physics degree exam at the University of Copenhagen:
"Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with a barometer."
One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of the barometer will equal the height of the building. "
This highly original answer so incensed the examiner follows that the student was failed immediately. He appealed to his fundamental rights, on the grounds that his answer was indisputably correct, and the university appointed an independent arbiter to decide the case. The arbiter judged that the answer was indeed correct, but did not display any noticeable knowledge of physics. To solve the problem, it was decided once again to ask the student in and allow him six minutes in which to provide a verbal answer which showed at least a minimal familiarity with the basic principles of physics.
For five minutes the student sat in silence, head forward, lost in thought. The arbiter reminded him that time was running out, to which the student replied that he had several extremely relevant answers, but could not decide which one to use. On being advised to hurry up the student replied as follows:
"Firstly, you could take the barometer up to the roof of the skyscraper, drop it over the edge, and measure the time it takes to reach the ground. The height of the building can be calculated in the square with the formula H = 0.5gxt. The barometer would certainly go there
Or, if the sun is shining you could measure the height of the barometer, set it up and measure the length of its shadow. Then measure the length of the skyscraper's shadow, then it is a simple matter to calculate the height of the skyscraper of proportional arithmetic.
But if you wanted to be in a highly scientific, you could tie a short piece of string to the barometer and let it swing like a pendulum, first at ground level and then on the roof of the skyscraper. The amount corresponds to the difference in the gravitational restoring force T = 2 pi squared (l / g).
Or if the skyscraper has an outside emergency staircase, it would be easier to walk up it off the height of the skyscraper in barometer lengths, then add them up.
If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox solution then you can of course use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in millibars to calculate the height of the building.
But since we independence of mind are constantly asked to practice and apply scientific methods, there was no doubt be much easier to knock on the door of the caretaker and tell him:
If you want a nice new barometer, I will give you this one if you tell me the height of this skyscraper. "
The student was Niels Bohr, the Danish man who ever won the Nobel Prize in Physics.
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Koen
- Beiträge: 16
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Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Hi Pascal,
Thailand
not the Philipines
Thailand
not the Philipines -
Koen
- Beiträge: 16
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Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Luk,
Emotions and unfairness... two keywords in life...
Nothing wrong with being a human
I did read all the postings involved, multiple times, the person in question did apology, and made some nuances so to speak, but not had a bad intent...
Emotions kills the insight.
Kill your emotions, get the insight and at the utmost level, keep the passion for what you and Pascal are doing, a lot people can and should learn from each other.
Once people where debating about the world is a plate or a globe...
Try to see how they react on my postings and then look the view count on my topics...
Emotions and unfairness... two keywords in life...
Nothing wrong with being a human
I did read all the postings involved, multiple times, the person in question did apology, and made some nuances so to speak, but not had a bad intent...
Emotions kills the insight.
Kill your emotions, get the insight and at the utmost level, keep the passion for what you and Pascal are doing, a lot people can and should learn from each other.
Once people where debating about the world is a plate or a globe...
Try to see how they react on my postings
and then look the view count on my topics...-
Koen
- Beiträge: 16
- Registriert: 03.12.2014 02:41
Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Pascal,
Auf gut Deutsch würde es auch gehen aber ist nicht meine Muttersprache.
Learning by doing , talk about your findings, the errors we made, study, build, learn, study again... endless loop
Did you never had a debate where you not had the feeling the others are childish ?
Happens everywhere...
The trick lays there to make the other one deliver the proof of his stupidity..
The harder they try to tackle you, the more importance is with you and your work...
The more THEY try, the more THEY show their lack of knowledge...
Don't spoil the fun with feeding them with facts and numbers...
Don't fight the fools, let the fools fight themselves...
Ow, there are more good people on the world then bad ones, also on DOW, thats my experience...
But only the bad ones make the news.... as always...
Auf gut Deutsch würde es auch gehen aber ist nicht meine Muttersprache.
Learning by doing , talk about your findings, the errors we made, study, build, learn, study again... endless loop
Did you never had a debate where you not had the feeling the others are childish ?
Happens everywhere...
The trick lays there to make the other one deliver the proof of his stupidity..
The harder they try to tackle you, the more importance is with you and your work...
The more THEY try, the more THEY show their lack of knowledge...
Don't spoil the fun with feeding them with facts and numbers...
Don't fight the fools, let the fools fight themselves...
Ow, there are more good people on the world then bad ones, also on DOW, thats my experience...
But only the bad ones make the news.... as always...
-
Pascal Kirchner
- Site Admin
- Beiträge: 678
- Registriert: 20.08.2014 16:35
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Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Hi Koen
And there was no problem with lingustical barriers this time....
But it's up to you. The somewhat oppose to.
I am not looking for friends. I'm looking for people to be factually can talk at the same level.
Successes and failures. Purely theoretical philosophy I think is bullshit. You have to do, see and experience.
If you believe only hard enough, you might be able to build a gasifier Gurus preach that. And who calls his work as the work of God. The gasifier Bible was born.
Maybe call me
______
regards Pascal
Do you see what can happen if you mixed up just one word? sorry for thatThailand
And there was no problem with lingustical barriers this time....
that's not the problem. The problem is rather that the other stupid fools follow. And the other people be silent. By silence the stupid get more and more reputations.Did you never had a debate where you not had the feeling the others are childish ?
Happens everywhere...
You're totally right. The stupid do not die out. That is why the world is ruled by more and more fools.The trick lays there to make the other one deliver the proof of his stupidity..
The harder they try to tackle you, the more importance is with you and your work...
The more THEY try, the more THEY show their lack of knowledge...
Don't spoil the fun with feeding them with facts and numbers...
Don't fight the fools, let the fools fight themselves...
Ow, there are more good people on the world then bad ones, also on DOW, thats my experience...
But only the bad ones make the news.... as always...
But it's up to you. The somewhat oppose to.
I am not looking for friends. I'm looking for people to be factually can talk at the same level.
Successes and failures. Purely theoretical philosophy I think is bullshit. You have to do, see and experience.
If you believe only hard enough, you might be able to build a gasifier Gurus preach that. And who calls his work as the work of God. The gasifier Bible was born.
Maybe call me
______
regards Pascal
-
Koen
- Beiträge: 16
- Registriert: 03.12.2014 02:41
Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Hi Pascal,
I agree with the word factual... and i love your vision about people following the childish...
Fighting windmills however is fatiguing, ask Don Quichotte, he knows...
The power of the windmill is that he knows you want to fight and he knows that will make you give up....
I am not a windmill, i am not Don Quichotte, i ignore those who say "can not be done" and i build, i build and keep on building..
Same i like what you and Luk are doing... showing what can be done...
SSS is what i live by:
Simple, Sound, Solid, that is what factual means to me, kein wenn und aber
I agree with the word factual... and i love your vision about people following the childish...
Fighting windmills however is fatiguing, ask Don Quichotte, he knows...
The power of the windmill is that he knows you want to fight and he knows that will make you give up....
I am not a windmill, i am not Don Quichotte, i ignore those who say "can not be done" and i build, i build and keep on building..
Same i like what you and Luk are doing... showing what can be done...
SSS is what i live by:
Simple, Sound, Solid, that is what factual means to me, kein wenn und aber
-
Pascal Kirchner
- Site Admin
- Beiträge: 678
- Registriert: 20.08.2014 16:35
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Re: Is incremantal feeding the same as DriZzleR feeding?
Hi Koen or should is say Rosinante ?
If you are not Don or even the Windmill there is only the horse, named Rosiante 
sorry for this joke.
back to business
What do you personally think about flame colors?
There are a variety of views on the subject.
Perhaps you jump even once in this topic ?
http://forum.thedrizzler.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=125
regards Pascal
If you are not Don or even the Windmill there is only the horse, named Rosiante
sorry for this joke.
back to business
What do you personally think about flame colors?
There are a variety of views on the subject.
Perhaps you jump even once in this topic ?
http://forum.thedrizzler.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=125
regards Pascal
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